I come from a long line of money hoarders.
Money hoarding is the one type of hoarding behavior that is acceptable and even admired in our society. Like any other kind of hoarding (such as my tendency towards pantry hoarding), money hoarding creeps me out. I think Warren Buffett is a bit of a money hoarder. My dad is definitely a money hoarder as is one of my brothers.
If a money hoarder, instead of keeping their money in a bank account where it is unseen, stacked all of their money under mattresses or in a room or closet and obsessively counted it every day, would we not think it was a little weird? When I was growing up, we picked bottles and babysat to earn money. That money was then taken away from us and put in a bank account. I never bought anything in a store before I left home at 16 (actually only set foot into a store a couple of times before then). No wonder I went hog-wild with spending when I finally had control of my own money.
How to (hopefully not) raise a money hoarder
My youngest son shows signs of being a money hoarder. The oldest son is much more balanced. I’ve had to rein him in a few times and teach him how to save up for things. The youngest saves and saves with far-off plans for spending – like for a car that he could buy 10 years from now. He’s now switched his savings plan to have it go towards the acreage that I want to buy in the next few years. Hmmm…
In the past, I’ve encouraged his saving tendencies, thinking it was so cute to see it in such a small kid. Maybe it’s not so cute though.
Recently, we all went to the local bookstore to browse and sample the Starbucks holiday drink specials. The little guy wanted to buy an over-priced sharpener ($4.95), a pack of Smencils ($14.95) and an over-priced pack of Justin Beiber (ugh) branded rubber bands ($4.95). He brought them to me and told me he was going to buy them. I told him that he could buy the rubber bands and the sharpener at the dollar store and save almost $10. Off he went… with me thinking that he was going to put them back. He came back with all three items in a bag.
He told me that he got $10 off on the buy since the wrong price came up and so the store gave him $10 off under the Scanning Code of Practice. Hmm, apparently a 10 year old knows about these things that most adults don’t know about (you can blame me for that).
I asked to see the receipt. He crumpled it up and wouldn’t let me see it. My nose may have been clouded by the smell of root beer Smencils, but I smelled a lie.
The next day, I called my dad (the uber-money hoarder) and talked money a bit – as we always do, because he loves it so much. He may not have relationships with people, but he has his money to keep him happy. Got off the phone, googled money hoarding and found this reader story that I’d missed on Get Rich Slowly: Rich Dad, Stingy Dad.
I agreed with Jacob from ERE’s comment (#44) that the dad has different values than the child (who clearly wants to be more balanced) – or most people – but I’ll be damned if I’m going to nurture my kid INTO being more of a money hoarder than he already is by shaming him into not spending money that he’s earned on something that he really loves.
So what’s this particular parent, who still struggles with feeling guilty about spending money on herself, going to do?
Get that miserly kid the bank account that he asked for for Christmas, put half of his money in there, and keep my big mouth shut the next time he wants to spend anything.
I wish I was more of a money hoarder than a spender when I was a kid.
Still, I can see where it becomes obsessive and a problem. My sibling is like that. Total money hoarder.
Me, not so much, but the balance is tricky. I say you should show him by example
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Too true FAB, I’m trying to show them by talking more about money and definitely trying to be reasonable about it myself. But I don’t think I’m explaining what I’m doing as much as I could – which is often the missing piece for kids. They just see “mom’s not spending this, but sometimes she blows money on that” – what’s the logic behind it all? Here, let me bore you with my spreadsheets…
I have a money hoarder, a moderate spender, and someone that will be bankrupt before he turns 15. At this point, I prefer the hoarder as I don’t worry as much about her.
I spent way too much as a kid, but a lot of that is because I had to cover most of my own expenses. However, I did waste plenty o’ money on food, that is for sure.
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Kris, I think my oldest has learned or is learning that lesson about wasting money on food. (I added up his spending for one month with him and it seemed to reform him).
He used to be quite a spendthrift when he was younger, up to about the last year. It’s made me very happy to see him come around and get more of a savings mindset as I was a little worried about him. I have read that the brain doesn’t mature to see long-term consequences of behavior until you’re in your early 20′s (for me 35 or so…). So I don’t tend to worry too terribly much about my kids as I used to.
As I say on my blog, I am pathologically frugal. I told my kids to be frugal, just not too pathological! However, given the levels of debt many young adults rack up, and given the scary job situation for many, and given the lack of a safety net, I have to say that frugality is a valuable skill.
Your kids are learning something from watching you. It may come in handy later… (hopefully not by necessity: frugality by choice is better than frugality by necessity).
I agree with you FS, and I think frugal spending according to our values has to be kept in mind vs. not spending anything just because you want to save money for nothing but the sake of saving money. It’s just meant to be USED for something (even if that something is retirement or helping others), not just accumulation.
I’m very very lucky that the oldest is extremely debt averse although I never told him about my past credit problems until recently. I suggested to him that he get a credit card with just a $500 limit, but he wants no part of any credit card, student loan, anything like that. And he gets by quite well by putting stuff onto my card and paying me cash when necessary. So something must have been taught through osmosis there.
It’s so hard being a parent and worrying about passing our own neuroses on to them, or totally scarring them in some way. I read that article on GRS too. Though I am nowhere near extreme, reading that article makes me flinch every time I hear the words “that’s too expensive” coming out of my mouth.
My husband reminds me that they do need guidance, and that is what we’re doing, but it is a tough balance.
Lindy, I think we’re okay if we explain to them why we’re doing what we’re doing. Not to be mean, but because we have other goals. Kids always think their parents are “rich” just because they have $100 in their wallet or something. My youngest used to pull that “you make $XXX / hour, you can buy this” but now that he knows that I’m saving up to be able to be home with him or travel with him in the summer, he gets why I make the buying decisions that I do. Except he’s turning it against me by saying we don’t need the house cleaners because the money could go towards the acreage. Nonono, mama NEEDS the house cleaners!
A much repeated phrase in my family growing up, “It’s your money and you can do what you want with it.” (Candy may have rotted my teeth, but I was allowed to spend as much of my own money on it as I wanted.) A message for life.
Here’s our thoughts on that post: http://nicoleandmaggie.wordpress.com/2010/07/19/money-love-and-food/
It took us a long time to figure out what was going on with that post, as can be seen from my multiple comments in the GRS article.
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Oh yes, I think I get it, but on reflection I thought it was more of a “you are worth nothing” or “what you want has no value to me” – not quite so much the love thing, or maybe they’re intertwined. OTOH, I could be projecting there.
I think maybe what we’re forgetting is that she said she didn’t get along with her dad anyway, which kind of tells me that there was something behind her dad’s hoarding vs. your parent’s frugality that are different, and maybe that’s the love or lack of it behind it. There’s nuances there where things are similar – yet so very different.
I was and am quite hands off with my oldest son and had that same philosophy that it was his money, not mine (and he’s been working pretty much since he was 12). Just like it’s his life and not mine if he decides to go back to school or not. (That one was much harder to let go of)! And he’s spent pretty much everything he’s made in those years – but better to learn the lessons when the numbers are small – blowing $10 or $15k per year is a lot better than blowing $150k per year.
Thanks for the post. It made me laugh. I had no idea about the Scanning Code of Practice!! Yes it seems you can definitely learn from a 10 year old.
I am a new parent, little girl 1 year and a half, so I still have some time. But frankly I am not sure what I will teach her. I am more frugal with my money as I grew up in a house where parents always fought over lack of financial resources. It was also Communism and kids could not earn anything, My husband, on the other hand, is more of a spender, he makes good money and wants a good life. He had jobs since 15 that were quite well paid, so he always had pocket money. We need to come to an agreement to what we want to teach beforehand? And partly it will dependent on her temperament too, judging by what you say about your kids?
Lulina, what I would look into, when your little one is a bit older – is the Myers Briggs test for children. You can find that here:
http://www.personalitypage.com/kids.html
I’m a firm believer that you do have to raise different children differently based on their particular personality type. We tend to parent kids in how we would have wanted to be as children with a little bit of how we were personally parented I think, and that’s not necessarily what they need.
But overall, I believe in balance in everything – especially when it comes to money. You are a lucky couple, since you likely balance each other. But we can give our kids that internal balance as well. Consistency seems more key than anything – and once they’re older, understanding the “why’s” of what we do (the primary one being that we love them.)
I hope that helps.
So often, hyperbole comes into the picture when we refer to people as misers, hoarders, and the like. I’m tired of it. A try miser is a miserable person obsessed with spending any money for others and even themselves. Both of my parents (divorced) won’t spend a dime on anyone including themselves and grandkids. Both have lost teeth by refusing to go to the dentist. Both have changed wills from dead relatives to maximize their inheritance. Both have manipulated the system, people’s generosity, and even their relatives to obtain just a cent more. Both will die on a big cushion of money or will go broke paying for nursing services since none will invest or donate to a trust.
Ed, I agree. But my father is definitely a money hoarder by your definition. It’s sad really.